LINER NOTES MAGAZINE – BY THOMAS GRECO – MAY 2000
Although much of the credit for the rise of the New Jersey shore rock scene has been attributed to Bruce Springsteen, the fact is that Little Steven Van Zandt had just as much influence as the Boss if not more…
Growing up in Jersey and playing in and out of bands with Bruce from the time they were teenagers, Van Zandt hooked up with Southside Johnny in the early-’70s (while Bruce recorded his first two albums) and created Southside Johnny & The Asbury Jukes. For the band’s first three albums, Van Zandt (then known as Miami Steve) produced and arranged every track and wrote 90 percent of the music. In 1975 Springsteen asked Steven to help out on Born To Run and soon after, Steven found himself a member of the E Street Band.
Breaking away from the Jukes and concentrating on the E Street Band, Van Zandt enjoyed his greatest success playing with Bruce on such albums as Darkness On The Edge Of Town, The River and Born In The U.S.A. By 1982, though, Steven was getting the solo itch. Once again he returned to the horn-drenched soul of the Jukes but this time under a new moniker – Little Steven & The Disciples Of Soul. Little Steven’s debut (Men Without Women) was critically acclaimed and spawned the MTV hit “Forever.”
Spurred by this success, Steven decided to leave the E Street Band and concentrate on his solo career. Always one to speak his mind, Steven also turned his attention to politics and began incorporating them into his music – specifically the albums Voice Of America, Freedom – No Compromise and Revolution. His political yearnings led to the super-successful Sun City project but ultimately turned off his core fans and left Steven without a record contract.
For the last 15 years, Steven has kept a low profile, showing up as a guest at Bruce or Southside shows, playing benefits or producing other artists (including the fantastic 1991 Jukes reunion Better Days). And then came 1999. 1999 turned out to be the year of Little Steven. After landing the role key of Silvio in the most popular television show in years (The Sopranos), Steven found himself in the middle of a full-out E Street Band reunion tour and back in the saddle again recording a new album. Born Again Savage, Steven’s first new album in over 10 years, is a rock and roll lover’s dream.
Joined by U2′s Adam Clayton and Jason Bonham, the album harkens back to such rock and roll heroes as Cream, the Stones, Led Zeppelin and the Beatles. Even with all this going on, Steven took some time while on the road with Bruce to talk with Liner Notes. Sounding upbeat and happier than ever (the interview took place the day after The Sopranos finale), Steven touched on every aspect of one of the most incredible careers (and comebacks) in rock and roll history.
Liner Notes: How are you doing? Still coming down from last night’s finale?
Little Steven: Great. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been a wild weekend (laughs).
LN: With your return to recording, The Sopranos and the E Street Band reunion, you could have very well called the new album Born Again Career.
Little Steven: (laughs) I think it’s born again two different careers. It’s feels good. I like the work. I haven’t worked in a long time so this is like making up for lost time as they say.
LN: With the album, you have successfully paid tribute to the bands you mention in the liner notes yet managed to still sound contemporary. Was that difficult to achieve?
LS: No. The influence those bands had on me has been absorbed so deeply and been there so long that when you are doing something new, unless you make an absolute point of trying to sound old, you’re going to sound contemporary because you are contemporary. The things that I learned from those bands can be used in terms of arrangements and structure of songs and things like that. So you get the best of both worlds – a direct link to tradition – and the reasons why those things communicated the way they did in terms of their emotional communication. That’s the type of communication, in terms of what we do, that I like to do. It’s new. It sounds new. Yet it follows those old rules which I think are timeless.
LN: Did you go back and listen to some of those records?
LS: I’ve never stopped. Never stopped.
LN: In the middle of new wave and punk, you put out soulful albums drenched with horns. In the middle of the selfishness of the ’80s you put out political albums. Now, just when everyone says rock is dead, you put out one of the hardest records in years. Is it your nature to buck the system?
LS: (non-stop laughter) I think it must be! I think you’re right. A pattern is emerging here (laughs). You know what, I don’t do that consciously. It just happens to be what I’m into at the time. I am attracted to the gaps, what’s not there. I think I have some intrinsic desire to create balance. I believe balance is a very important thing in life. When I’m listening to the radio or whatever, and I don’t hear something, I’m probably attracted to what I’m not hearing. That’s probably true but it’s not conscious really. My records are strictly as accurate as I can be representing where I’m at at that time.
LN: It must drive you crazy to listen to the radio these days.
LS: Well, I’ve always been a button pusher (laughs). I was complaining about American radio until I went to Europe a few months ago. I spent two weeks in Europe where I discovered that there is no rock stations left. Let me tell you, that’s a shock. As much as we may complain here, it’s unimaginable to be in one country after another where there are no rock stations at all. Forget it. You can’t hear the Beatles in Europe. Rolling Stones. You know, it’s like the last 30 years didn’t exist. It’s really frightening. I’m not complaining about America ever again (laughs).
LN: How did you hook up with Adam Clayton and Jason Bonham?
LS: I’ve known Adam a long time. I met U2 when they first came over in the early ’80s and happened to run into him again a little while ago. We started talking and I told him I had these songs on the shelf and he said “let’s go record them.” Which was very cool. That enthusiasm was very important to me at the time. Jason I did not know but I thought would be the perfect drummer because I did want to capture some of that hard rock of the ’60s flavor. Even though he’s a young guy, I knew he would know that stuff. He turned out to be the perfect guy. It turned out to be a great little band.
LN: After having not recorded in such a long time, were you surprised by the positive reaction and airplay the album is receiving?
LS: Shocked. Absolutely shocked. I think it’s the most airplay I’ve ever gotten, which is really weird. Especially in view of what you just said in terms of the context of the times. I mean rock is under siege. That’s no joke. That is a serious statement. Rock is being exterminated before our eyes. So for radio to pick up on a record like mine, is amazing. I thought it wouldn’t really fit into any of the categories that rule radio today. With all these formats, in a way you don’t fit into any, in another you fit into all of them, you just don’t know. You have no idea.
LN: Why did it take so long to get you back into the recording studio?
LS: I just didn’t have any desire to be part of the music business anymore. I never really was but I would visit occasionally. It just became obvious that we were in two different businesses at this point and I felt in order to do something interesting at all, it required some kind of marketing and commitment that I didn’t feel major companies were ready to make. And that turned out to be true. They’ve gone totally pop now for the most part. It was a mutual thing. I wasn’t crazy about them. They weren’t crazy about me. So I just kind of waited around.for the Internet to happen (laughs). That sort of got me going. We started LittleSteven.com and the label Renegade Nation.com and when people started hearing the record, they said “this is really good. It’s got to be in the stores.” So we made a deal with Koch and we’re back in that whole world right now. It’s an interesting world.
LN: You’ve said that this album completes a cycle of albums you intended to release. Will there be a new cycle or do you see yourself concentrating on other things?
LS: I don’t know. I don’t think there will be a new cycle because this was a very specific five-album adventure to learn about myself and at least an outline of who I am and what’s going on in the world. Now I did that. It was very effective and successful that way. Now, I don’t know what the next one will be. It may not even be a political record. These five were five conceptual records, each with a theme and I probably will always do conceptual records of some kind because I just really like that and that’s really an addiction I don’t see changing. I can’t imagine going back to ten unrelated songs you just put out.
LN: But there will be more Little Steven Records. And we won’t have to wait ten years.
LS: Yeah. Hopefully not (laughs).
LN: When you put out Men Without Women, you seemed to be on your way as a solo artist. But then your music took a political turn and your records stopped selling. Looking back, would you do anything differently?
LS: I think I might spend a few more minutes on crafting my own records. I never produced myself the way I produced other people. I have no patience at all with myself. I’ll sing something once or twice or I’ll play a solo once or twice or go through one or two takes. Basically if we get it, we get it and I don’t really dwell on it and perfect it and make it sound as good as possible all the time. I like the records. I really do. But I think perhaps, there could have been a little more time taken, maybe to make them one percent more commercially acceptable. You know, that wouldn’t have hurt. But I was so anxious to get the ideas, the songs out. Once the track and the performance captured the essence of the song, I just put it out. I’m done. That’s okay. It’s certainly an honest approach but it’s not really getting the absolute utmost out of the art form.
LN: What are your fondest memories of the Sun City project?
LS: The fact that it got done was a small miracle. The cooperation. It was a real interesting moment in my life because it showed what will power can accomplish and that enthusiasm and commitment and those kinds of words can be contagious. My big purpose before and after Sun City was to politicize as many people as I could about everything. That certainly was the most effective use of that because as soon as you have 50 artists on a record, they are the first ones who are politicized. And that was the idea. I knew I would never be a big enough success to actually be able to politicize the public necessarily. But I knew I could politicize my friends and other artists. Then they would take that into their lives and their audiences and that’s what happened. That was very successful. Just the cooperation of all the engineers and the studios and all the people that got involved. It was amazing to see because we were basically explaining to people what this was all about from scratch. I went to the Senate and was showing people in the Senate where South Africa was on the map. It was that fundamental.
LN: And you got to work with people like the Temptations and Ringo.
LS: Yeah. Well that was kind of ironic because I was a person who never wanted to meet my heroes. I always stayed away from them because they meant so much to me.if they turned out to be an asshole, you know, it would screw up my whole life (laughs). Ironically I ended up with 50 artists who you’re not only meeting but taking the responsibility of producing. It was great to do, because after that everything was easy. Everything in life was easy (laughs). It was a great personal accomplishment. It’s so rare that you have that kind of absolute success in politics. It was a complete win.
LN: When you left the E Street Band, as it turned out, they never recorded another album together. Did you have any idea Bruce was going in another direction?
LS: Well, he always had both things going on. I’ve known him a long time and he was always a very versatile guy. He could do solo things. He could do band things. I wasn’t thinking in those terms at the time.
LN: Your friendship with Bruce has been talked about endlessly over the years. I just always wondered why it took him so long to ask you to join the band?
LS: We had always had different things going on. We played together in various things that would last anywhere from weeks to months in those days. Eventually it was a circumstantial thing where I was bored with the “bar wars” even though we were making a bit of history ourselves with the Jukes. Which looking back, I’m actually quite proud of. I didn’t realize it at the time, we were creating a whole new sound and redefining what a bar band was. And changing what happened in bars which up until the Jukes, strictly Top 40. I mean, we did quite a lot. But fighting with the bar owners…we had to create a revolution to go from five sets a night to three sets, which had never been done. Anyway, I was looking to get out of town for a minute and Bruce was looking to put the guitar down for a minute and he really only had about seven shows booked.there wasn’t much left at that point because he was near the end. It was a troubled time for Bruce. The record company was about to drop him and it was just sort of “let’s go out and have a bit of fun these last couple of weeks before this whole music business thing comes to an end” (laughs). It was just a circumstantial thing.
LN: How is the tour going? Has there been any decision about making an album with the band?
LS: Real good. Real good. I got a pretty good imagination and I can’t imagine it going any better. I think an album seems like the logical next step for the reunion. I think the reunion is permanent.
LN: I think your work with Southside Johnny has been tremendously overlooked. In a lot of people’s opinion, Hearts Of Stone is one of the greatest albums ever recorded.
LS: Thank you. I like Hearts Of Stone too. It was a rare moment where we able to work within the music business in a bubble of naivete, of ignorance, and not think about what you have to do to be commercially successful. It was pure. We were able to create this new sound, which, of course, was the last thing you want to do in the music business. As soon as we came out with the first record, it was just at the time when consultants were just starting in radio really. Right away, one of the first things they sent around to all the stations, was don’t play anything with horns (laughs). They were relating it to Chicago or Blood Sweat & Tears, which had gone into a more jazzy kind of music then. We were doing something quite different with it but right away we were put into that horn category where “this ain’t rock, so don’t play it.” So we were immediately struggling right from the start. But we always did good live. That’s where we were. We came from a live performance world. We were never a part of the music business really. We were making a living outside of it.
LN: What comes to mind when you think of your work with the Jukes?
LS: I’m very, very proud of it. In fact I went back to that sound because that was my sound – how I found my unique identity – on my first solo record and started from there.
LN: Were you satisfied with the results of the reunion on Better Days?
LS: I sure was. I thought that was a tremendous album, but of course the record label went out of business the week it came out.
LN: Do you ever see yourself working with Southside again?
LS: I don’t know. It’s possible. It’s just difficult now because there’s no support system for it. So it’s hard.
LN: When the three of you and Jon Bon Jovi got together for the King Benefit in Red Bank King Benefit in Red Bank, it must have been something.
LS: That turned out to be one of the best shows that I have ever been associated with. It was just one of those odd things. None of us had really been playing all that much and hadn’t really seen each other all that much. It was just one of those odd things and I think it was due to Jon’s concept, which was totally unique. Instead of everybody doing a set, we would do every other song. Some people would stay on stage, some would leave. It became a really fascinating way of doing the show. That’s what made it so good.
LN: Was there ever any mention of taking that lineup out on the road?
LS: (laughs) I don’t know. It certainly worked in New Jersey (laughs).
LN: Last night’s finale of The Sopranos ironically brought you back to Asbury Park. A million different things must have gone through your head while filming those boardwalk scenes.
LS: (laughs) Yeah. First of all, it was fu*king cold! It was interesting. Only a wild man like David Chase would think of Asbury as a great location at this point (laughs). But it turned out to be perfect because of the desolation and its total ruin. It added to the eeriness of the dream sequence. It turned out to be great. I had been back a few times.
LN: Any ideas on how to rebuild Asbury Park? Asbury Park?
LS: It’s one of the great mysteries of the universe why this has happened. It’s Beirut. Forget it. Nobody quite can explain it. There’s obviously something weird going on down there politically that no one quite understands. I mean it’s a town with a beach.beachfront property should be worth something to someone. I don’t get it. No one seems to.
LN: The camaraderie between the show’s characters looks so genuine. Is that as true off the set?
LS: Yeah it is. It’s a combination of luck but it’s really the result of a very unique thing in the entertainment world right now. For one person’s vision to be realized in an uncompromising way is really hard to do. It’s a bit easier in music but when you get to TV and movies, it’s so collaborative and so bureaucratic that things are just diluted and diluted. It’s a tribute to HBO for giving David Chase this much freedom. He has absolute total control in every aspect of the show. Form casting to the music. He has more than lived up to the faith they had in him. That’s why the show is so good and so successful and why everybody gets along. He handpicked everybody. It’s a tribute to him and HBO. The cast is just amazing. It broke every rule in the book. Mostly unfamiliar faces, which is unheard of. Unfamiliar locations, pace, complexities. One rule after another is broken. It showed that people were really hungry for something with depth and intelligence. It’s a nice thing to be a part of. The cast, apart from being so good, personally they made me feel right at home from the start, which they didn’t have to do. They had every reason to have an attitude towards me and they didn’t. It meant the world to me and made me work that much harder to rise to their level.
LN: Have you been approached by anyone who feels the show puts Italian-Americans in a bad light?
LS: Never. Quite the contrary (laughs). First of all, it’s real and in no way representing the entire culture obviously. There’s no romanticizing going on. The complete lack of glamorization of this particular line of work is so obvious that.if you live in New Jersey, you know people like that or wannabes. It’s how it is. It’s a standard American genre. It’s so much an accepted part of the American cultural cannon that I think anyone complaining about it is hopelessly ignorant about what’s been going on the last 70 years. It’s like a western. You have westerns, science fiction, gangster movies. It’s just another genre. There are Irish gangsters. Jewish gangsters. It’s ridiculous. It’s adolescent. It’s basically saying because we portray ten guys as gangsters, we’re saying the whole culture is like that. It’s adolescent.
LN: You once released a single called “Vote That Mutha Out” What’s your take on the upcoming presidential election?
LS: I don’t see this election, like most, as anything dramatic. I tend to go issue by issue. In general, when it comes to things like human rights and the environment, the Democrats tend to be one percent better than the Republicans. Then again, I feel our tax structure is absolute tyranny (laughs). So I go back and forth. In this case, there doesn’t seem to be much of a difference between the two. It’s usually a lowest common denominator kind of thing.
LN: Will you tour?
LS: Maybe. If I could fit something in between the end of the E Street tour and the third season of The Sopranos, I’d like to.
LN: Your record collection is on fire. Which one would you save?
LS: The Rolling Stones. The Singles Collection.
LN: Take care.
LS: Hey! Don’t take any shit from anybody. Tell them to be proud (laughs).
Little Steven – INTERVIEW BY THOMAS GRECO – May 2000 – Copyrights (c) LINER NOTES – THE COMPACT DISC WORLD MAGAZINE – 2000 – All RIGHTS RESERVED – REPRINTED WITH PERMISSON
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